Curse

Shayne Hawke · Feb 12, 2011, 04:50 PM // 16:50

The arena itself is terrible by design. A fix to put a certain number of X profession on a team would be a lot more useful in a lot of other places, and wouldn't necessarily balance out FA anyways.

Killed u man · Feb 12, 2011, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hobbs

Siege Turtle Attack removes an enchantment before dealing damage.

Fair dos, but point still stands: One monk can easily keep a NPC (Example Juggernaught) alive for long enough to ensure victory.

Exceptions are when you have a reasonable good Luxon team, but that's not something you should be hoping for.

Wyndy · Feb 12, 2011, 05:47 PM // 17:47

I've done a lot of FA on both sides and can understand your frustration. Victory is so much sweeter on the Luxon side because of the disadvantage. I have found that playing Luxon side on or near z-bounty day brings the monks out on kurz side. I avoid those days in playing FA. Otherwise, playing a build that focuses on monks can be very entertaining. Me likey my mesmer.../not signed

belladonna shylock · Feb 12, 2011, 06:36 PM // 18:36

FA is fine. While not everything about it is perfect, it's fine.

mage767 · Feb 12, 2011, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyndy

I've done a lot of FA on both sides and can understand your frustration. Victory is so much sweeter on the Luxon side because of the disadvantage. I have found that playing Luxon side on or near z-bounty day brings the monks out on kurz side. I avoid those days in playing FA. Otherwise, playing a build that focuses on monks can be very entertaining. Me likey my mesmer.../not signed

Listen to this guy. Avoid days playing FA Luxon on ZB days, you are less likely to win as Lux since monks rush to Kurz side (even I do this, and I know the win/loss ratio is in favor of Kurz). But wait times can be horrendous on Kurz side.

Terrible Surgeon · Feb 12, 2011, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Luxons should get some sort of damage increase, scaled so that it's balanced nicely. This should keep increasing over time (to well over 50-100% towards the last 2 minutes) For every Luxon the Kurzicks kill, this damage increase gets reduced by 1-2%.

Its called the turtles and luxon warriors...decent monks on the luxon side can keep them alive and then they just bulldoze into the fortress after a while.

FA is a random format and "luck" plays a role as to what you have for team members. If you dont like random formats like RA, JQ, and FA go play HA, AB or GvG instead. This is a QQ thread about "fairness" in a random format and needs closed.

/nope

Killed u man · Feb 12, 2011, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrible Surgeon

Its called the turtles and luxon warriors...decent monks on the luxon side can keep them alive and then they just bulldoze into the fortress after a while.

FA is a random format and "luck" plays a role as to what you have for team members. If you dont like random formats like RA, JQ, and FA go play HA, AB or GvG instead. This is a QQ thread about "fairness" in a random format and needs closed.

/nope

The east turtle gets stuck 90% of the time. Pretty much any time the Kurzicks to the "Rush east mine" tactics at start, you can be sure as hell your turtle will be stuck for atleast 50-100% of the match.

Even then, if you have 1 Monk keeping the turtle alive, it definatly helps you greatly, but it's so easy for a Kurzick monk to keep the Juggernaught alive.

It really doesn't take a genius to see the severe imbalance in FA, so I have no clue why you're arguing. I barely every play FA and JQ because of the imbalancedness that exist combined with the fact that most PvE'ers are absolutely clueless.

Also, to whoever said: "Only play on Kurzick side during quest days", it works, but you need an opposing team in order to go in. Thus, this is a flawed solution by nature. Even if some people stayed Luxon side, waiting times would be redicilously long on Kurzick side (which already is true).

Again, fix the Turtle glitches, fix the map imbalancedness (the fact that Luxons have to push makes it harder for them) by giving Luxons a damage boost and remove the "Kill NPC's = autocap shrine" mechanic (this goes for both FA and JQ) and I'm sure everyone will enjoy these formats the more.

Elnino · Feb 13, 2011, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

The east turtle gets stuck 90% of the time. Pretty much any time the Kurzicks to the "Rush east mine" tactics at start, you can be sure as hell your turtle will be stuck for atleast 50-100% of the match.

This is something that definately needs to get fixed.

Quote:

Even then, if you have 1 Monk keeping the turtle alive, it definatly helps you greatly, but it's so easy for a Kurzick monk to keep the Juggernaught alive.

It's only easy because the luxons are too braindead to attack the monk. I've played games where I was the only monk and won coz all the luxons just put damage on the juggernaut and not me.

Quote:

It really doesn't take a genius to see the severe imbalance in FA, so I have no clue why you're arguing. I barely every play FA and JQ because of the imbalancedness that exist combined with the fact that most PvE'ers are absolutely clueless.

This is the real imbalance in FA

The Super Chilli · Feb 13, 2011, 01:21 AM // 01:21

If the answer to a problem is "stop being noob and play better", that will fix nothing. FA is low-end PvP and is usualy a start for inexperianced players, so expecting every player to be highly experienced and knowing exactly what their doing will likely not happen.

Its one thing to be able to heal a single ally, but to take that healer down takes experience many people dont have.

Elnino · Feb 13, 2011, 01:37 AM // 01:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Super Chilli

If the answer to a problem is "stop being noob and play better", that will fix nothing. FA is low-end PvP and is usualy a start for inexperianced players, so expecting every player to be highly experienced and knowing exactly what their doing will likely not happen.

Its one thing to be able to heal a single ally, but to take that healer down takes experience many people dont have.

Then there really is no other way to fix the underlying issues in FA. People are just going to have to live with it. The format should not be balanced around player skill. That just dumbs down the entire format which is never a good idea. Apart from bug fixes, FA shouldn't be touched.

Sint · Feb 13, 2011, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elnino

It's only easy because the luxons are too braindead to attack the monk. I've played games where I was the only monk and won coz all the luxons just put damage on the juggernaut and not me.

This. Play a mesmer and you can screw over 1 or 2 monks easily.

ensoriki · Feb 13, 2011, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Wtf, Kurzicks had it favored?
Since when?
It's retardedly easy to drop turtle assaults.
If they capture the turtle spawn shrines big whoop if they didn't kill the turtles they're still in action and re-capping those shrines are mindnumingly easy.

Then it's just onslaught after onslaught. Even with 3 monks on Kurzick side, hell even toss a rit in there, turtle siege attacks annoying aoe will break down the opposition.
A single monk can maintain the turtle with ease.

Everytime we win on Kurzicks it's because Luxons don't abuse turtles to apply continual pressure, to expose holes in our defenses, which will be created when the turtles are using their ridiculous attacks.

When a Luxon monk gets on a turtle, Kurzicks get pushed back always. The kurzick goal is to defend but if they are collecting amber as well, the defenses get stretched thin. Shrines get capped, Luxon pressure increases, Luxons penetrate and Kurzicks are forced into a corner 70% of the time. If they can't break the pressure it's all about just outlasting it, which even then is unlikely with turtles spiking targets. Kurzick juggernaut doesn't do jack either.

You got one game where the monks held it down big whoop.
Luxons get a Minion Master and the turtles and good luck staying afloat if they have a monk as well to maintain the squirtle squads pressure.

You've all seen it too. Turtles coming in from both sides, a minion master coming in from one side. Luxons have a monk, turtle gets healed. Have fun defending.
Obviously if you have 5 healers/protectors the game will be highly defensive. Thats not a FA problem thats the nature of GW making healers/Protectors bulky as they come. Massive turtle pressure would still break it if it had enough time.

Chasing Squirrels · Feb 13, 2011, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Super Chilli

I know there is numerus threads about this subject, yet nothing seems to be done about it.

After getting bored of PvE i decided to go back to my old love of FA. After only a couple of rounds the frustration and anger of the game led me to rage quit for the first time in a very long time.

In one game I experienced, a total of 5 enemy healers (3 monks, 1 resto rt and ST rit) that simply stood infront of the gate and spammed until the clock counted down. This is not a proper game but a waste of time. A unorganized team like in FA should not have to stand up agains the impossible of a never ending ball of heals.

My idea is to limit the amount of monks that can enter a game of FA on both sides to 2 per team, and while some people may think this may kill the role for monks regardless of their attribute, a offensive game will always be more exciting and thrilling than spamming 1,2,3 on your keyboard.

Regardless, something must be done about FA for the sake of all PvP. With HA and GvG on their last legs, and JQ dominated by the mindless bombers, FA could be one of the last remaining PvP arenas.

Only problem is anet refuses to fix the turtle getting stuck which is unfair

The Super Chilli · Feb 15, 2011, 05:21 AM // 05:21

I agree with the person who said that the shrines should become capturable if you stand there alone or the 15 seconds to bring the pip bar to the top (Cant find it, but it somewhere). It should be easily implementable and would help the game a little bit

My problem is not that Luxons dont take advantage of turtles when they are actualy moving, but that the Kurzicks have the ABILITY to roll a team of healers and win 95% of game with little effort needed by running out the clock. Something the luxons cant achieve, no matter how long you keep the turtles alive.

UnChosen · Feb 15, 2011, 06:50 AM // 06:50

One thing that no one have said is that Luxons have one big inherent advantage even before looking at stuff like healers or turtles.

Kurzick MUST wait the full duration of the match to earn the full amount of factions while Luxons could win the match in 2 minutes and still get the same amount of factions as the Kurzick.

I've already encountered many matches where we (Kurzick) were clearly winning without 4+ healers and the Luxons rage resigned just to deny us our rightful factions.

If they want to make things balanced, first they have to solve the above discrepancy first.

StormX · Feb 15, 2011, 07:18 AM // 07:18

Get rid of healers=problem solved. No more lux monks hiding under turtle, or kurz monks hiding behind gate. each side just blasts each other to oblivion... Oh. can't do anything about a fundamental design flaw. have to wait till GW2 sorry.

MithranArkanere · Feb 15, 2011, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Imagine a game in which all 16 players are non-smiting monks.
Who will win?
Kurzicks, because all they have to do is wait.

Now, a game in which all of them are only offensive, with no more heals other than self-heals.
Who will win? Either.

If we made a diagram with all the possible outcomes in party formations, and the % chance of winning for each side depending on their builds, and then we average them all, we'll see that it is in no way 50%/50%.

That may be fine for some of the AB maps, but there's no version of FA in which Kurzick attack and Luxons defend.

Either both should have been more like QA, or FA should have been like the Snowball fight of the gods, or QA should have been the opposite of FA, with Kuzicks attacking and Luxons defending.

As it is, it's not right.

Hugh Manatee · Feb 15, 2011, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Let me preface this with the following: If you think an 8 healer team can hold fort aspenwood against an equally optimized luxon team, you're stupid, no polite way to put it, your just dumb. It doesn't matter how many healers you have, you'll burn out their energy if they can't prot, and if you can't prop up the gates you'll need to run amber or push the enemy out. Thing about going against an offense light team(or defending from that position, as i've learned) is any ground you take is yours to keep, they can't push back. Having said that, one well of profane, one well timed expunge or rend and any NPC can get spiked to hell. This is why they put the enchant stripping on the turtles in the first place(that and most luxon players are too dumb to take enchant rips on their own).

All this can be fixed by not playing like a moron, on either side. The solution is to not let morons in this arena.

Having said that, maybe let players form 8 man teams to do FA. I do concede more tactical approaches are necessary on the luxon side, a fixed team could help that along, but this idiocy of "dur ate munkz=intsa WINNAR!" needs to stop. On the kurzick side, if you don't have the offense to push the lux out of the base, as said, they will camp there and wear you out(or worst case scenario for the timid luxon noob teams, stall at a gate humping their turtle refusing to press the attack on the next gate). I've been in defnse heavy kurzick teams, and lost just like this several times, because the offense players who were there couldn't score kills.

It's either that, letting players form teams, or as I said earlier, take kurzick healing out of the objective equation and make their defense based on offense. Make the gates and god's vengance actual NPC objects, like the aura gate from a gate to far, that you have to attack and damage to destroy. Make these objects unhealable from player heals. Maybe give the surounding NPCs a way to heal the gate in trickles so as to give the kurzicks time to run the amber. Maybe give the turtles a siege bonus VS the gates and reduce the effects VS the players.

Further more make the Gods Vengance weapon stop filling automatically. Kurzicks should have to make the choice, heal the gates or finish the prodject. Set a 10 minute countdown, if the kurzicks can't fill the thing before it counts down and the luxons haven't destroyed it, draw game. This would give kurz a reason to go for the green mine.

UnChosen · Feb 15, 2011, 09:51 PM // 21:51

If something needs to be changed....its that they need to make amber running easier.

If someone on luxons decides to camp a mine, pretty much no single person can cap it and survive. If several people goes out to cap a mine, then by the time they're back the luxons would be pressing at green gate already. Another option would be to amber run with 1 runner + 1 monk, but then that's totally inefficient compared to just healing the players inside + NPCS.

Even if the luxons are stupid enough not to guard the mine, the moment you cap it some ele would just have to backtrack a bit out of the gate and recap it in less than 10 seconds before any other kurzick would have a chance to go out and grab more amber. Oh, and the one person that managed to grab amber usually ends up dying on the way back anyways because they have to go through a turtle, 4 luxon warriors, and usually half the enemy's team before reaching the gatekeeper.

ensoriki · Feb 15, 2011, 10:51 PM // 22:51

If anything the green amber mine needs to change not the other ones.
Capturing that mine & taking it's amber back is unrealistic especially for the current teams. Maybe organized PvP teams could capitilize on the existance of the green amber mine but pugs can't. Like...they literally cannot. To go to that shrine your going to need team work to pull it off successfully as you need to run that amber back, and it is the shrine with the best npc defense and in addition the shrine farthest away.

Turtle defense will you down at the end of the day, monks cannot last forever, 8 monk teams aren't going to win against 8 offensive teams, as long as the 8 offensive teams have the right builds, even if not completely optimal for the situation.

The energy just won't be there, as Kurzick npc's die, and pressure increases.

You can bring your prot monks and red bar heals, if it's a super offensive luxon team with even 1 monk to help 1 turtle maintain the pressure, your team will eventually crumble. The only saving grace is that the blue bar may fill up before your team crumbles and give you the win, against a very offensive team, I still doubt that. Kurzicks have to do more then sheer protting to keep themselves a float because they will crumble from the pressure. Luxons need to be pushed out and gates need to be fixed. Amber needs to be run or the pressure will kill you.

FA was probably around the idea of balanced teams or something which obviously wasn't going to happen with the random team mechanic.